Member Exclusive Workshop: Creating Images With Staying Power

Okay, I think we're ready to begin.

I am Mayer Rus,

the west coast editor of Architectural Digest.

Thank you for joining this AD Pro webinar.

I'm so happy to be here,

linked through the electronic universe

with AD 100, Pamela Shamshiri.

Pam, welcome.

Thank you, Mayer, hi.

You look gorgeous.

Glad I could be here.

Thank you. Can I just say

that this ring light also is,

I've gotta get one of these, 'cause I look gorgeous too.

Today we are going to talk about, as the title says,

creating images with staying power,

but also the importance of documenting your work.

How to document your work, how to find a photographer?

All of these things that are so incredibly important,

have always been important in communicating your brand,

your vision to the outside world,

but never more so than in today's image-driven,

social media-driven society

where you can get work from the internet.

And the power of images is so important to that.

Pam, first, I should say

that Pam just came out with her first monograph,

which is scary,

which is very beautiful and a testament

to the power of image making,

because the images are incredibly compelling.

Pam, tell us, you've worked with Michael Reynolds,

stylist, creative director, extraordinaire

and photographer, Steven Kent Johnson,

for since the firm began and before then.

Yes. How did you connect

with them and when did you realize how important it was

to keep a consistent messaging across all

of the images that you make?

So I connected with Michael, the first time,

I remember spending significant time with him was

when we at Comm, you had gotten the Cooper Hewitt Award

for the year that year.

And we had just finished our book.

And it was all different photographers

and a lot of different points of view.

And we wanted to do something that was more

like the magazine Nest,

where it was just an individual story within a book.

And I think at that point I realized

that I really wanted to find a,

I'll call it a design family,

which includes you Mayer, which is Michael, Steven

and you about a way of, like,

communicating very consistently

and cohesively, a point of view.

And I think Michael is a dear friend

and we talk all the time,

literally like everything's sort of start, you know,

from concept to when we get to photography,

to actually photographing, to layout.

Michael's had a hand in all the images for our studio,

which has been about seven years.

And you know, I think sound advice to any designer

is document your work, spend what needs to be spent

to document your work.

And that does not necessarily mean flying in, you know,

a photographer who you see published in all the magazines.

For young designers especially,

find a sympathetic collaborator.

Yeah. Someone you can work with,

but there's no better investment

for a design firm than documenting your work.

Absolutely. Documenting it extensively,

especially in these days when so many outlets need content

and don't have the bandwidth,

the budgets to photograph everything.

If you have a story that's all set and ready to go,

your chances of getting someone to publish it in print,

online, wherever, and also on social media.

So now you have a shorthand, let's sort of-

You're only as good as your images.

I mean, it's so important.

It's like, you know, it's your Instagram.

It's your next job, it's your book,

you know, it's everything, right?

Like, I make sure it is the single,

it's the most important investment we can make.

And I don't know about you, but doing it.

It's not cheap.

No, it's not cheap.

But it's almost like films where you're only as good

as your last film.

You're only as good as your last image, you know?

Like, I'm really happy that I've surrounded myself

with very strong triumvirate of people

who have a point of view.

And I think having that consistent mix of point of views

in every image has added up to a story,

you know, that's our brand, yeah.

And so it's the project that's on the cover of your book.

Yeah, it's the Smalley Residence by Quincy Jones.

The Smalley Residence by Quincy Jones.

And it's a big house.

It's one of his largest,

if not the largest of his residential commissions.

And talk about the actual shoot breaking down a house.

Do you walk through with Michael and Steven

and start saying, well, we need this, we need this?

Do you have a preconceived idea of what needs shooting?

Or do you feel it out as you go through the project?

You know, the house is a sculpture

and it's really hard to take a bad photo here.

But our challenge was to make it look and feel residential.

And so we had a pre-scout for the shoot

and we really talked about how to communicate,

how to make sure it feels like a home and a house.

And so that was discussed ahead of time.

You know, the scale is incredible,

but also breaking it down to smaller moments,

so that it does truly feel like someone lives there,

which someone does.

And that was part of the challenge as well, like, making it.

There's a real division between public space

and private space, and we really push that

in the design from this era, so.

And I think that's an important point

to make about the scale of the images.

You want full room shots, you want medium shots

that take a piece of the room, that tell a story.

You want close up shots. Yeah.

Of details that capture the spirit of it

in a couple of objects, a couple of textures,

so that it's not all the photos are taken at the same scale.

And you know, this vast living room is a great example,

because, you know, I've picked a few of the images.

But in the end, you ended up shooting five

or six images of this space to make it make sense.

And so here's a picture that connects the entry.

You see the totem up on the sort of middle left

from the entry door, so it connects

and you get a view down to this major moment.

And tell us about your thoughts

on sort of capturing this space and as you mentioned,

trying to keep the feel residential

given the vast scale of the room.

Yeah, I think, you know, my background's in film,

so it was like the establishing shot

to the medium to, like, what you were saying.

But I think the totem we talked about specifically,

that being a linking point.

And then I think in this situation

the trees got brought in at the last minute

and we wanted something organic to tie from inside out.

And I think we brought one extra tree.

There were two trees there,

and we brought one extra for the shoot

and it ended up staying.

So we really focused on, like, connecting to outside

and making it have an organic line

and making it feel residential with the flowers

and the trees and just things

that are not so architectural in line, in proportion.

And this brings up an important question, you know,

some people think there's like, ooh, you know,

how much did you bring into a shoot?

Can you talk to us about the range of what you bring in,

like, how you negotiate that with the client?

Like, you know, if you don't wanna say, oh, you know,

that one thing you insisted we have is hideous in fact,

and I've gotta move it out and bring in something else.

Tell us about your thoughts on bringing things,

whether they be flowers, throws, a tree,

or even a piece of furniture into a shoot,

so that it adequately captures your vision

of what the space is.

Yeah, so it's highly dependent on our last phase

with the client, and I call it the smalls,

if they've purchased all the smalls

that are in a space between,

like, bowls and bases and all that.

And I think we always bring flowers,

always bring organic elements like indoor trees,

and always bring pillows and blankets.

But beyond that, it's sort of filling in where there's,

you know, sometimes I think, you know this Mayer,

sometimes there's a TV above a mantle

and we need a piece of art to hide it,

or sometimes there's holes.

And so I just make sure to bring that to the shoot

and I do tell the client ahead of time,

because it represents them

and I wanna make sure they're good with it.

So I'll just send a quick list to them of these are,

you know, if there's big pieces,

I'll just send the big pieces in.

But it's more rare, you know?

It is more rare.

But for those who might think

that there's a taboo surrounding it.

No. If you are paying

for the shoot.

You call 'em. Give it your best, yeah.

You reserve the right to make the images

that best represent what you think is your work.

And obviously, taking in the, you know,

consideration for your client,

but you wanna make the strongest image.

Same, yeah.

And if that means bringing in some art for clients

who don't have much art or have great art and so be.

It's so costly to get to a shoot that you wanna be there

and put your best foot forward

and make the most of it.

Exactly, like shipping and talking to local galleries,

those kinds of things.

Like, just finding people who are happy

to have their work exposed that, you know?

And honest, I think Michael Reynolds has been

a great critique and sounding voice.

Sometimes he'll be like, it's just missing an edge.

Like, we just need to fuck it up.

Like we need to, you know,

we need to put something in here that's off

or like throws everything off kilter a little.

And I love having that honesty around

and that point of view, you know?

Yeah. Surround yourself

with a good advisor. And you don't

necessarily need to hire a stylist if you're good at it.

Yeah. If you as a designer,

I mean, it's great to have another point of view.

It's great to have another set of hands,

but certainly for designers who are A, control freaks

and will like, you know, clutch their pearls

if a stylist moves thing one way or the other.

It's true, quite often. Normally to have it.

Yeah, quite often there's like someone at the office,

and a lot of time I'll go with someone

that has a very opposite point of view

or has not worked on the project,

because they're not attached to it,

they're really looking at the photograph.

There isn't an emotional history they're carrying forward

and bringing to your photo shoot.

Like, so there's always a little tension at the office

where I'm like, what about so-and-so coming?

You know, and it's a very random person,

but it's because there isn't that attachment, like I said.

And this is, you know, I think an interesting...

Oh wait, what?

Let me go back.

So this image and this image.

Don't be afraid to try a couple of views

of an important room because they will work.

This ended up being the cover image for the book,

but we talked a lot about this image.

Yeah. And like, you know,

having options for different formats gives you

a little more, you know, sort of wiggle room depending

on what you're trying to say with the images.

Mayer, do you remember it was interesting,

'cause everyone thought the other image

did not look residential, 'cause of the scale.

And so I was very grateful that we had this image

that does feel more residential than the wide shot.

Yeah, that might feel residential for you, Pam, but.

No, I'm sorry, that sounded.

You stacked my-

In comparison between two.

Yes. I know.

I understand what you're saying.

And then there are just sort of functional requirements.

You wanna get a mix of horizontals

and verticals. Yeah.

Different spaces want demand, different formats,

but you have to consciously think,

I don't want an entire story of horizontals.

It'll be tougher for my Instagram.

You have to think about the images that maybe a magazine

or a website won't want,

but that you will want for your own.

I'm old school.

I still think about the magazine layout or the book.

And there's so often, like,

some of my favorite images just don't work on Instagram.

So I would make sure during the shoot

that you have the square in mind,

you know, because some of the best images end up,

we have to crop or shrink down or, you know?

And it's nice to just go into it knowing

that that's a primary way of people seeing it.

Yeah, and I mean here's, you know,

lighting obviously, that's the number one tool

in the photographer's toolbox is.

I know and he's so.

You know, there is a prejudice

in favor of natural light these days.

It used to be very different,

certainly in the old days of Architectural Digest,

we had a lot of nighttime shoots.

We had a lot of lavish dinner tables

with like, 20 piece play settings

and a dramatic uplight. Yeah.

And, you know, a branch coming in from the side and shadows.

But today the preference generally falls

to more natural light.

But once again, you wanna work with a photographer.

If light needs to be supplemented,

if it needs to be bounced in,

make sure you have the light

that brings your rooms to life.

And there's a perfect example.

Something on practical on that note is

you have generally one day to two days for these shoots,

and you really don't wanna have time constraints

on what room you can be in at what time.

Like, you really wanna give the photographer,

especially if you have someone like Steven Ken Johnson,

who's just really sculpting with light.

Like, just give them an open schedule to move to the light

and really make sure that

that is the number one overruling part of the schedule,

is following the light

I feel like I've made that mistake recently.

Yeah, and of course, you know,

I guess this goes without saying,

but if it's possible for the photographer

to see the space in advance of the shoot,

understand which way the sun is going,

you know, where they'll wanna start generally.

You know, the more information you have,

you know? The best.

What is it? Forewarned is forearmed.

Forearmed is forewarn.

So one of those things that people say.

Even if it's the night before

and you're going by in the dark,

at least you can figure out where east west is

and just wrap your head around it, you know?

Absolutely, absolutely.

And you know, you wanna bring the drama.

So here's this incredible kitchen that, you know,

in this very respectful renovation of this landmark house,

the one thing given mid-century houses,

generally the baths and the kitchens are not well-suited

to contemporary needs and lifestyles.

So you completely reimagine the kitchen.

But thinking about this, you know, when I saw this picture,

I thought, oh, double page spread,

that because of the drama of the geometries,

you know, the mashugana circular-

Mashugana. [giggles]

It's a little mashugana, but it's incredible.

It is, this was very nerve-wracking.

We took quite a liberty with this.

And there was a very square, static,

very masculine kitchen here.

And this was our big flourish,

so it was very nerve-wracking.

But I'm happy we've captured this double page spread image.

Yeah, and so let's go back to art for a second.

This is another house entirely

that you collaborated with the architects,

Marmol Radziner, another AD 100 firm.

Here is this gorgeous dining room.

Nakashima chairs and table,

the lamp is our friend, John Carlo Valle,

cover star of AD's latest issue.

And I don't remember who made this image,

but the artwork in this house

really spoke to who the clients are,

even though they were anonymous.

Yes. But in the living room,

and I don't have that shot.

And I don't think you always need to cover a television.

I always remember Andree Putman telling me years ago

when I asked her about this idea of, like,

putting a television in some kind of,

you know, sinking into the thing.

And she looked at me and she said, you know,

hiding a television in a cabinet is very middle class.

And which I thought was so genius.

That's so good.

I wanna write that down. Sometimes it's to see a TV

and you just don't want it to be a black hole.

Yeah. The black hole cutter,

like, in the middle of a room.

And when we shot the living room of this house,

we decided over this mantle, it just, you know,

even though their super TV, TV, TV, it needed an artwork.

So you brought a painting in,

did you pass that painting by the client

before you brought it in?

Luckily, I did.

And I'm glad I did.

I said, you know, this is a painting that we could borrow.

It's in LA, it's a dear friend and I think it fits in.

And they agreed.

And then it caused so much controversy.

Like, I remember when AD posted in,

it was just like, all the comments were about the painting.

And I think, Mayer, in this situation,

just like the television was squat

and horizontal in a very vertical space,

so I really wanted to, like, elevate the eye

and complete the amount, you know,

have it proportionally be resolved.

And so that's why we brought it in,

but it became very distracting for people, that painting.

And of course, you know,

when someone wants to talk about it endlessly,

you know, it's really good.

And now she's going on to Louise Bonnet

and she's going on to have her show at Gagosian.

Yeah, I know.

I wanna go back to all those haters.

Yeah, look. Instagram feed,

like, oh, my God.

Like, I mean, it was endless hate.

Yeah. Endless.

Like, ugh, the worst thing I ever saw.

But who's laughing now?

Louise Bonnet is laughing. I know, Louise Bonnet is

and I'm so happy for her.

So, and what about bad art?

What do you do with clients with bad art?

Both as a designer, and when I say bad,

of course, it's subjective, but you know?

Of course, subjective, You know, subjective,

but you're not afraid to bring in art.

I suggest art all the time and try to fill in.

I think, you know, well, this image actually is a great,

you know, the art collection was mostly all street art,

very revered, important and had so much color in it

that we went through.

And we started with the art

and made sure we introduced

a lot of dark black walls that are wood.

I wanted to make sure to start with all that color,

show the art at its best place, and then,

you know, get back into the design from there.

And yeah, to address,

sometimes our clients have art collections

that we don't feel as much of a connection to,

and we will try to suggest inserting different pieces.

And sometimes it's well received and other times it's not.

But for sure, the first step is to show it in its best life.

Yeah, always.

Always like, yeah.

And I wanna encourage everyone tuning in.

There's a button somewhere in the magic world

of your computer that allows you to ask a question.

And we'll be taking questions throughout this talk

and certainly at the end.

So please, if you have questions,

log them in and we're gonna get to them.

There's also a survey at the end where you can say, like,

uh, that Mayer Rus, he's so boring and has nothing to say.

So be sure to take the survey at the end.

People versus not people,

especially in like a commercial space.

This is your office. Yeah.

You're thinking, like, do you like to see people?

Do you, you know, when you?

I'm a people person, I love seeing people.

I think in this shot, you know, or like,

we wanted it to look like a working full office,

so it made sense here.

And then we'll do portraits, but when we're shooting houses,

we don't generally have people.

But I love having a sense of life

and I think like a little, you know,

sense of history, sense of life,

like the presence of a hand or you know?

So yeah, this was appropriate for our office.

You know, we wanted it to show it active and full.

Tell me your thoughts about Photoshop and, you know,

taking out grills or unsightly overhead lighting.

Do you have any problem with that?

I don't, I go for the most emotional,

what's right for the image.

I don't have a problem.

I think a lot of our grills are beautiful

and luckily, like, we can leave them,

but there's definitely unsightly things that happen,

and as I said, I think it's more important

to put your best foot forward.

And do you work on that directly with the stylist

and the photographer during the images?

Because there's a huge amount of work

that goes into making these images.

After, yeah.

Some of the big things, I'll pull Steven aside and say,

you know, I know I will definitely want to address this.

And so that if there's anything,

work to be done during the photographs,

sometimes it's the view out of the window.

Sometimes it's, you know, events.

So he knows and then afterwards there is a bunch of back

and forth, like Steven will take out what he thinks

it needs to be taken out

and add in that view that we are missing.

And then I will review and give additional notes,

or it's usually we're just in sync

and it's just done, you know?

Right, but you wanna check color levels,

you wanna check that there isn't some, you know,

some horrible thing missed. Yeah.

Yeah. Clients collection

of Nazi memorabilia that's snuck

into the shoot or something.

I know. Not Pam's clients.

Not Pam's clients.

No, really no,

but color is a big one.

I'm glad you brought that up.

We're pretty exact about our colors

and it's a constant discussion,

and we're so lucky that we're in an era

where that's adjustable in post.

Yeah, and this was a tricky color

and also an interesting image I thought,

because there are so many arches.

Arches were a big part of your design story

for this project.

I think this image sort of had a nice balance between,

like, your decorating and your outfitting of the office.

And then, the big gesture.

One of the questions that someone had submitted is

what's the main difference between an editorial shoot

and a portfolio shoot?

And I know I have some ideas.

Talk to me about that,

because you sort of swing both ways as it were.

Yeah, yeah. Go ahead.

For me, you know, it's all about knowing your audience

and knowing who is going to be receiving the information.

And so you can like, an editorial shoot,

we will shift to, like, the AD point of view

or the, you know, like, you can make a shift

and make sure to draw out of a project,

what's appropriate for the magazine or publication.

And I think for a portfolio,

it's really what represents you the best.

There are certain shots, I'm not gonna lie, Mayer,

like, there's certain shots we take,

so we can send it to you.

And like, I hope you like it,

and I hope Amy likes it and I hope, you know?

So we always have.

And certainly, there are what we call lifestyle shots

that are not really appropriate for your website.

You know, prosperous children bouncing around,

showing their prosperity, you know,

might be sweet in a layout,

but certainly nobody needs to see that.

You know, in general, the portfolio shots.

I don't know, I think there's a base line to everything

that we're saying that's like,

take the most beautiful shot

and you'll be able to use it in, you know,

ideally for your portfolio

to send it out to magazines, all those things.

But, you know,

sometimes editorial just pushes it a little bit more,

pushes a narrative a little bit more.

But you know, there should be at least some pictures

that work for everything.

For everything.

And there was a nice thing in working

with Eric Hoffman on our book design.

He really wanted a lot of details.

He thought that was missing from our photography

and wanted to make sure that the quality

of the details, like, you know, there's so much detail

to what all of that, you know, everyone does.

And I think that was nice to be able

to add that to the book.

So there's also, like, shooting for the book, you know?

Yeah, and this idea of shooting details,

I'm against taking too many photographs.

Often I get these shoots with, you know, 20 vignettes.

Yeah. And my thought is,

if it isn't an incredible object

or an incredible piece of art. Yeah.

Or a texture story that gives you more sense of that,

you know, that really ties into

what the aesthetic sensibility of the project is.

It's not a shot worth taking.

I agree, I don't like the flower shots.

Like, all of a sudden you're like, okay,

it's a closeup of a flower, but, you know,

but for me, this rug was very hard to make.

It was a custom rug.

This Alma Allen stump is really special

and you get a sense of that.

And then that all over alto chair, like, that small detail,

I think those together really tell a story.

And so just had a big quality, you know?

Yeah, and you know, the back cover of your book.

Yes. Was in fact one

of these shocks. Yeah.

That was like neat encapsulation

of the world of Shamshiri.

And it's just sort of this incredible wood table.

And I forget the name.

John Wood, we make a lot of furniture with him,

and he just has such a love of wood.

You can see it, you know?

And what's the snakey?

That was just a random, it was a chain,

I think it was a rain chain.

And you know, it was one of those, like,

moments where it was just like, just a twist, you know?

Oh, and something pretty is peeking in up here.

Oh yeah, it's a glass bowl.

It's a beautiful glass bowl that's from the '30s.

But you know, this thing with,

just kind of three different elements ended up

on the back cover of your book,

because it was such a neat encapsulation.

And then, wait, where?

Here's another perfect example,

a banquette detail, a nubby fabric,

a Josef Albers painting and the wood.

And it says so much about this project.

Yeah, it really does.

It was a Laszlo restoration and you know,

he looked at Albers a lot and this was actually,

it's from Christopher Farr.

It's a Albers tapestry.

And this client hadn't gotten a ton of art.

And so this was a really great way

to bring something significant in

that I thought was related to Laszlo as well.

Okay, and so here's a hotel.

And this goes into the, what you were saying,

about having a cinematic approach

to like, the establishing shot, the moving in,

like, this corner tells a story.

Yeah. A color story, certainly.

And a sensibility story.

And then you have a shot like this that, you know,

plays to the, like, wild and wonderful world

of Maison de la Luz.

This is a hotel in New Orleans.

Yeah. And so tell me

about photographing hospitality and making images, yeah.

I think we designed this to be felt

at different times of the day.

So the room beyond is the breakfast room

and is sort of, like, where you're supposed

to, like, start your day.

And then this is, you know, mid-morning to afternoon,

and then the red room is evening.

So I was so happy when Steven grabbed me

and we ran to the, like, red room.

He was like, right now, this is right now.

Like, you know, it's the after hours.

So again, it was about chasing the light in that moment.

And I think I really appreciate that Steven, like,

you know, heard our planning of that.

We had very specific design,

so that you could experience each room

a different time of day.

And he really, like, honored that

through the light and the photography.

Interesting.

And this is sunset, yes?

Yes, this is west sunset.

And again, it's Laszlo who had such a free spirit

and immigrated to the US and was just so enamored

with plastics and color, and really became more eclectic.

You know, after having a pretty rigorous design background,

he came to LA and found his freedom.

And so we just embraced that.

And there wasn't a ton of information,

but there was a podcast I heard through the UCLA archives

with him, and my God, he just loved life.

He played tennis, he drank, he was very social.

He is, you know, so yeah.

This is our love letter to him.

And you've spoken a lot about the research

that goes into designing these projects and the archives,

that you're looking at vintage images

of these projects that perform the way you see them.

Yeah. The way Julia Shulman

would've seen it 50 years ago.

Yeah. And I love this image,

because once again, it's a front door,

but you start getting a sense of this mad color story.

Yeah.

And you want to look at rooms as rooms.

Here's the dining room from the dining area,

but you also wanna get a sense of space

and flow through the house.

I'd love this image because you really get

a sense of movement through the house.

Yeah, I think it calms you to understand the ground plan.

I think receive information when you, you know,

I think it gives order, and you can relax, right?

And oh, there's the beautiful thing.

It was interesting Mayer,

there wasn't enough information on Lazslo in a weird way.

And it was interesting to go to an oral history

or read an interview and go, like,

sometimes the fantasy of it is just as good.

A lot of this house was gone.

And so in that situation, you know,

it was just our interpretation of him.

We had his logo from his studio and I remember thinking,

wow, this man has a sense of freedom.

Like, we can, you know?

So I'm gonna ask you some of the great questions

that are coming in.

Great.

One of them is about ownership of photography and,

you know, if you commission a shoot

and give it to Architectural Digest, you know,

does Steven retain ownership of the images?

How does it work, your contracts?

That's a really good question.

So we commission and we have the right

to use it on our website.

But once it goes to a magazine or publication,

we do contact Steven and make sure he's okay with it.

And I think we have specific usage for ourselves

and then what beyond that, it's up to Steven.

So I think different photographers

have different arrangements about usage.

And this is such a great question,

because you need to make sure,

one, if you have a photographer who's sort of a partner,

feels like you've worked together for years,

you're on the same page about what the,

you'll also sort of be on the same page about like,

the photographer isn't gonna ask for a usage fee

if it's for X, it's for an invitation to a thing.

Exactly.

So it goes back, I think, to the idea

that you really want a relationship.

You do. With the photographer,

both for artistic ends and for business ends.

Because every photographer will do this in a different way.

You engage relationship

and as much as you're put into it

is as much as you get back.

And it's just you want that clarity ahead of time too,

as much as possible.

And there's another question about seasonal shoots.

You ever shoot something and say,

oh, they're gonna want this for a Christmas issue,

so we'd better Christmas it out,

or what are your thoughts about seasonal shooting?

Spring shooting?

Oh, my god, the garden.

I mean, I think, we just had this on a project.

We just finished in summer and I was like,

they're probably not gonna plant this garden,

'cause where we were.

We're so hot, and now we're, like,

waiting another nine months to do the shoot,

because you know, it will get planted sometime late winter

and then hopefully, we'll grow in by spring.

And so it'll probably be next summer, early summer.

But yeah, gardens are such a huge part of the story,

especially if you have indoor outdoor,

like, if you're from Los Angeles

and other places where you live indoor outdoor.

So I've learned to really be aware of that.

And I think everyone, I think Mayer, you know,

generally you want it to be green outside.

So spring is ideal, early spring is ideal,

and occasionally there'll be winter.

The early spring tends

to be what every worker wants, right?

Yeah.

Although high summer, you know, we were shooting something

this past weekend in the Hamptons.

It definitely had a feel

that fall was creeping in a little bit,

but it felt okay given the nature of the plantings,

that there are a lot of evergreens

and a lot of sculptural box wood

and things that remained perfectly intact.

But yes, you certainly want to shoot

when outdoors is looking its best.

Yeah. Not every project

needs to have an outdoor angle.

No. I mean, it's worth it

to get an establishing shot of a piece

of the outside if it's beautiful.

Yeah. Like, you haven't really

had an opportunity to work

on the exterior architecture. Yes.

And it's not something, you know, don't shoot.

No, and I would say. Beautiful.

Be patient, don't worry about like, you know,

get it in the cam when it's the right time

and you know, try to just, like, be focused

on getting the best possible photo.

And each house does have its best season, yeah.

Yeah, and as for seasonal decoration,

I think you just wanna avoid it completely.

I agree. Because you wanna give

outlets wide latitude in when they can show a story.

Often we'll think like, oh, you know,

this is high summer, we're doing a winter issue.

Maybe, you know, there are many considerations

that go into developing our lineup,

but it's good to have some flexibility

for something that, you know?

You can't anticipate.

You can't anticipate.

And one of the questions we have,

what are the key elements to shoot for AD's point of view?

Oh. What do you think

about AD's point of view?

You know, I think AD loves color and pattern,

and a sense of family and people and life.

And it's shifting more and more into that.

So sometimes I'll just be like,

no, keep that pillow on there,

or let's blah, blah, blah, or you know?

Yeah, I've learned that.

And I also think Instagram loves that.

And so, you know, the more graphic,

the quicker the read, the better, so.

Yeah,

lifestyle images with people are tough.

They're difficult.

We only need them for specific stories.

If young designers are shooting a project to submit,

you do not need to shoot the family.

When you submit, you can say there's a young family here

that would be eager to participate,

but if we want those shots,

we'll go back and get those shots.

I don't know that.

If you have a great kids' bedroom, shoot it, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Kids' bedrooms and images that show

that a house is lived in, you know?

We shot a porch that had a million vehicles

and I remember like,

it was like a million different ways

to get the kids to school,

and it was a great shot, you know?

Yeah, it's a great shot.

And things that, yeah, give a sense of life in the house,

because we hate sort of shoots that are just so tight

and you just can't imagine

how life unfolds within these houses.

And there's, you know, a question about magazines.

Like, who's first?

Instagram, do you wait until it's published?

The answer is yes.

If you give a project to a magazine,

do not put it on your Instagram

and in fact, don't put it on your website.

Now this can be tricky for young designers

who only have one or two projects

and need to get them out there to get more projects.

But ideally, when we see a submission at the magazine,

it has not been overexposed on Instagram.

You know, maybe a couple of construction shots.

Yeah. And like, oops,

this chair I just got is, that's all fine.

But if it's out there living in the world,

then there's no reason really for us to spotlight it.

And I wanna say to the young designers,

there's nothing more special than getting

a PDF of your recent work that no one has seen.

Like, clients love that.

So, you know, like, if it's not on a website, don't worry.

Send it as a portfolio, you know, outside.

And there's a question about getting published.

Best way to get published for younger designers

who have newly completed projects

and that have an amazing story?

Well, anyone who is on this call subscribes to AD Pro.

Like, you want to build relationships

with your clients as well as magazines.

You wanna know who the editors are,

who the appropriate editor is to send your project,

so that it's something that, you know,

if I feel like I'm getting a pitch

from somebody who doesn't actually go on the site

or read the magazine, or understand, like,

we never do this kind of thing,

then I just, you know,

shuffle it into wastebins. Yeah.

So, you know, you want to know who you are submitting to,

look at the website, look at the different platforms,

look at Clever, look at Pro.

Look at the digital exclusive house tours

and figure out who the appropriate editor is

to submit these stories to.

And frankly, you know,

come to AD events, introduce yourself.

We're always more likely to go first for a quote,

for a new story to someone in our world

who's a member of the AD Pro directory who, you know,

someone who has showed interest in our world

and wants us to see their world.

That's great. Let's see, for Pam.

And don't be afraid to introduce yourself

to other designers too, 'cause sometimes, you know?

Yeah, this is a great question.

When you shoot a project

and there has been another architect

or even another designer who's worked on it,

how do you go about using the image

on your website or social media or?

It's a good one for me.

What, it's tough, right?

Good one for me, yes.

It's very tough.

And Mayer, you had to write an article.

I think you do the right thing.

I just make sure to fully credit everyone

that can be credited and, you know,

put it forth as a collaboration, because it always is.

And yeah, it's a tough one.

And I think it actually comes up more on Instagram.

Yes. 'Cause it's so hard

to navigate all the re-tagging and the different people.

And it's hard to, like, tag 90, you know?

So that seems to be a daily thing.

And I just try to give everyone credit, include everyone,

and know that we're in a very collaborative,

multidisciplinary field. Yeah.

I mean, that's a different part of the same question is,

you know, we don't have endless pages for credits.

And yes, the builders are essential

to a successful project.

Yeah. I every trades person

and every thing, there simply isn't room.

Yeah. For everything,

but for major collaborators, of course,

and with magazines, you wanna be straight up front.

Yeah. About, you know,

this is a house that I worked on,

but there are two rooms

that were done by a different designer.

Yeah. And they're not

in this set of pictures.

You just wanna be very above board

about who worked on a project.

And ideally, you want to be on the same page

with an architect who worked on the house

about where the pictures are going.

Even, you know, as a courtesy,

if you've shot the house, talk to the architect and say,

I think this is great for AD

and I'm submitting it with your name and be generous-

And do it together, you're twice as strong.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

There's been more collaboration

on the photo shoot as well.

I think quite often the architects will go in

and get their photos without furnishings,

and now they are more interested,

because there's more venues for interior designers.

They're more interested in contributing

or being part of the interior street as well,

which is a change.

And budget concerns are omnipresent,

especially for young designers.

So you might talk to an architect

who worked on a project to split costs.

Yeah. You want to maintain control

of who's shooting it and how it's getting shot.

And you can do, you know,

that deal can include shots of architecture

that you wouldn't necessarily want for yourself,

but you don't want to sign on with a photographer

who's only used to taking certain kinds

of architectural photography.

You wanna maintain control.

And there's a question about publicists,

there's a question that comes up and.

That's a good question.

You know, do you need a publicist?

The answer is no.

You don't have to have a publicist to submit a story.

And it doesn't necessarily, you know,

like, a publicist is helpful in strategizing.

Like, you don't want a publicist just

because they've got my email.

You want a publicist who can develop a strategy with you.

And if you can't afford it, you should.

Don't worry. Don't worry.

It's like, be patient also.

If there's somebody that you really wanna work with,

but you don't have the numbers to be, you know,

stay in touch with that person,

but you don't have to have one.

It's not a plus or a minus.

There are publicists I've worked with for,

sadly, decades, because I'm so old.

And I trust that they know, you know,

that can be a very helpful thing.

A publicist knows what I want and even more importantly,

what I'm not going to want and won't waste my time

with a pitch on something that's not right for AD

or not right for me, or should be going

to another editor at AD.

But there are many ways, as I said, to involve yourself

in the life of magazine that do not require-

I love what you said, Mayer.

If you need a strategy

and you're growing to a different direction,

I think that's a good time to engage a publicist.

Like, it's that.

And we only have a minute or two left,

so final questions I hope are coming in.

You know, Pam, have you ever had to convince a client

of photographing their home for publication?

And how do you navigate that conversation?

Oh, my God, every time.

Excellent question. That's a great question.

Every time, and you tiptoe around it

and it's such an inconvenience,

and hopefully they're not there.

You know, like, all of those things,

just because it's their home

and you don't wanna bother them.

It's a dance that we do.

And hopefully, they wanna support you

and are proud of the work and want it to be out there.

And most clients are at that point, you know,

but yes, it's a continuous conversation.

I think timing is really important, obviously.

Yeah. If they have a big week

or their schedule's intense,

we would never ask at that time.

And we wait for trips and wait for them

to be out of the house.

That's like the ideal, or time it with kids, you know?

So it's all about timing, but it's-

It's all about timing and also about understanding

what their concerns are going to be.

Yeah. You know,

if you've submitted pictures and haven't yet,

you know, ideally once you've submitted,

you have the client's permission.

But you can also tell them that there's leeway

in describing the location of a house.

Yeah. For clients

who are concerned about security.

We don't have to say it's in this neighborhood.

We don't have to say it's next

to this readily identifiable landmark.

Yeah. We completely understand

those concerns.

If you have contacts at the magazines, like I said,

you can have a conversation before you go to the client,

so that you'll know, like,

AD does not need to photograph your children.

Like, we'd be happy to shoot this with you [coughs]

or, pardon me, we don't need to photograph people at all,

or AD is gonna want this, you know?

And as Pam said, it's all about timing.

You know, help the client when they're super happy,

when like, you know,

the sofa they've been waiting on for two years,

like, shows up with, you know,

an extra leg sticking out of the side.

Don't ask, I guess that falls under...

That happens. Last question.

If your clients are somewhat well known,

should you include that in your submission?

Yes, absolutely.

We're interested in interesting houses belonging

to interesting people out in the world.

So yes, it absolutely mention what they do.

Make sure they're okay with it, yeah.

Make sure they're okay.

Yeah, of course.

Make sure they're okay before you-

Dangle

I'm gonna close with a plug to fill out the little survey.

It won't take long about this thing.

If you want to criticize Pam's hair or my baldness,

you can make a comment.

But I'm gonna say, Pam, you're divine.

Thank you. Mayer, thank you.

Your candor and, oh, look, there's the survey.

Mayer, thank you.

And everybody go get Pam's book, it's incredible.

Thank you. It's very well written.

[Pam giggles]

Goodbye, bye Pam.

Bye, thank you.